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Jan 10, 2011 7:43:57 GMT -6
Post by jwallace0317 on Jan 10, 2011 7:43:57 GMT -6
Sgallo, in addition to what you admitted in your text message, it's impossible for it to be a "trying to draw offside" situation as you just tried to claim. Think about it: if I had to call a timeout quickly before you were able to line up and snap the ball, then obviously I was not letting you line up and have us all just waiting there while you try to fake snap. You did try to do the fake snap thing on various occasions throughout the game, but that's a different issue and I don't have a problem with how you handled that.
Sorry to keep this going, and we've wasted more time than necessary on this, but I can't let you claim something false about this. In addition, your comment about me still being able to score despite not having any timeouts left is a "no harm no foul" argument that is beside the point. The point is that it was a cheesy thing to do, and shouldn't have been done in the first place. Just because someone is able to overcome the cheese doesn't make the cheese okay to do.
It's stuff like this that makes me feel like I have to record any OD games, so I can have the undisputed video proof for later! lol
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Jan 10, 2011 8:06:10 GMT -6
Post by sgallo3 on Jan 10, 2011 8:06:10 GMT -6
it's all kind of hazy to me, i was pretty drunk at the time. my statements weren't meant as a personal attack. i was just saying the faking going for it on fourth down had absolutely no impact on the result of the game
the game log says i only punted 1 time, but i thought it was at least 2 or 3 times like u said, because i remember lining up and then you using timeouts
i won't do it in the rest of my games unless it is a 4th and less than 5 so i have the potential to draw the defense offsides for a first
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Jan 10, 2011 10:02:25 GMT -6
Post by jwallace0317 on Jan 10, 2011 10:02:25 GMT -6
Sgallo3, you're right, it had no impact on the result, which is why I'm really not worked up about it. But if I see something cheesy in a game, I will usually point it out whether it affects the game or not, just because it's good to address that stuff early, in case down the road it DOES affect the outcome of a game. I would expect someone to do the same with my gameplay as well.
I mistakenly said you punted twice and attempted a FG once when you did this, but it was punted once and attempted a field goal twice. Whatever, I don't take it personal, and I think we're on the same page about it. Good luck this week.
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Jan 10, 2011 16:54:31 GMT -6
Post by lsuwet on Jan 10, 2011 16:54:31 GMT -6
What's that I smell?? IT'S A RIVALRY!!! haha...it's all good guys, this is the kind of stuff that adds character to the league imo.
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Jan 10, 2011 17:33:40 GMT -6
Post by dave on Jan 10, 2011 17:33:40 GMT -6
Whatever the reason for doing it I think it's best to consider this cheesing and to refrain from doing it again. The chances are probably slim to none of you getting him to jump offsides for the 1st down anyway so I would avoid doing it.
We should only be going for it on 4th down in situations that you would see in a real life college game like short yardage, end of half/game, etc.
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Jan 12, 2011 19:55:39 GMT -6
Post by sgallo3 on Jan 12, 2011 19:55:39 GMT -6
Michigan State went for 2 4th downs in the first half of our game. the 1st time it was tied, he had the ball, 4th and 6 on my 41. he goes for it and is stopped later i'm up 21-14 with 23 seconds left in the first half, he goes for a 4th and 4 on his own 26 yard line. he converted the play and scored before the half. it was a huge swing, because i had a 7 point lead and was going to be getting the ball after half time. he ended up winning the game by kicking a field goal as time expired
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Jan 13, 2011 7:35:34 GMT -6
Post by hammondtigerfan on Jan 13, 2011 7:35:34 GMT -6
sgallo3, Normally I wouldn't go for it on 4th down, but I really had no choice. On each of those occassions I went for it was a make or break decision for me. I knew that in order for me to have a shot at winning the game I needed to go for it to keep pace with your offense because I knew my defense was not going to stop you or anyone else I play this season.
If one would like at the stats and scores of the games I played thus far you can clearly see that my defense this season is terrible. My offense is stellar this year and you had trouble stopping me the entire game. Like you pointed out, I had the ball on my own 26 yard line with 23 seconds, down by 7, facing a 4th and 4, and you got the ball back after halftime. I converted for the 1st down and threw a bomb to one of my WR's for the score on the next play. Even then when you knew what I was going to do, your defense still could not stop my offense. My QB threw for over 400 yards and 4 TD's and I think I my RB ran for over 150 yards and 2 TD's. So, I knew I had a shot at making the 4th and 4.
In my opinion, this was all about a game management decision and not cheesing play.
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Jan 13, 2011 8:20:09 GMT -6
Post by sgallo3 on Jan 13, 2011 8:20:09 GMT -6
We should only be going for it on 4th down in situations that you would see in a real life college game
quote from league manager himself.
this is from the link provided in the OP
Fourth down conversion attempts - no excessive use in any manner; no going for it unless you're at your opponent's side of the 50 or closer (exception: you're losing in the fourth quarter).
In game penalty for violations - offending player immediately calls QB kneel and no huddles 3 more QB kneels to give the ball back to the other team.
the odds of scoring if u convert that 4th are so low it makes it almost all risk, no reward.
i couldn't get a 3 deep play called in time so all my LBs were blitzing and had man to man coverage the next play. i should have used a timeout tho
i really don't have a problem with it, i will be going for 4th downs from now on if i feel like it is necessary for me to get it to have a chance, regardless of realism
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Jan 13, 2011 11:13:58 GMT -6
Post by jwallace0317 on Jan 13, 2011 11:13:58 GMT -6
My two cents, and please (really) disregard me entirely if you think it's irrelevant:
Going for it on 4th and 6 on your opponent's 41 yard line, in the first half: not cheesy, though a close call. In commishing my own OD I reviewed a spreadsheet containing all play-by-play data (NFL, not college, so yes NFL is more conservative), and most teams punt in that situation, but at least 15% go for it, so it's not an expected call, but doing it only one time in a game in that situation is not that crazy.
Going for it on 4th and 4 on your own 26 yard line, down by only a touchdown with seconds left in the first half: absolutely cheesy. I don't think it matters whether your offense is great or your defense is horrible, because that has nothing to do with the criteria for whether you should be doing it or not. The reference point is whether you're playing in a way that is consistent with what you see on Saturday, and no team would ever go for it in that situation. The answer to the problem is you learning how to play better defense, not playing the game in a clearly unrealistic way.
Sgallo3, I think you're asking to get booted from the OD if you take the attitude of going for it whenever you think it will benefit you. Maybe you should quit now and save the trouble of future disputes?
I'm not the commish, but I'm chiming in because obviously if I end up playing hammondtigerfan or sgallo3 (again), I'm going to be affected by this.
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Jan 13, 2011 12:47:58 GMT -6
Post by sgallo3 on Jan 13, 2011 12:47:58 GMT -6
Sgallo3, I think you're asking to get booted from the OD if you take the attitude of going for it whenever you think it will benefit you
thats what i thought as well, but obviously there isn't going to be any type of enforcement if nothing is done about someone going for it on 4th and 4 on their own 24 with 23 seconds left in the half. that is about as bad as it possibly gets
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Jan 13, 2011 18:13:32 GMT -6
Post by hammondtigerfan on Jan 13, 2011 18:13:32 GMT -6
sgallo, we can throw out the results and replay the game if the commish wants to do that. like i said earlier, I typically don't go for it on 4th down unless I feel like I don't have any other options. I don't know what's wrong with my defensive secondary this year, but the just stand around and let receivers catch pass and don't even attempt to swat the ball down. I just felt like the only way I could even keep the game close was to gamble on some of my 4th downs.
It's up to the commish on how he would like to proceed. Either replay the game or sim it.
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Jan 13, 2011 18:40:13 GMT -6
Post by hammondtigerfan on Jan 13, 2011 18:40:13 GMT -6
I see that he has already advanced to the next week so it's up to him on how he wants to resolve it.
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Jan 13, 2011 19:35:00 GMT -6
Post by sd75 on Jan 13, 2011 19:35:00 GMT -6
about enforcement, don't assume that there will be none, owners in the past have been booted before for unsim play
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Jan 13, 2011 20:11:53 GMT -6
Post by sgallo3 on Jan 13, 2011 20:11:53 GMT -6
I see that he has already advanced to the next week so it's up to him on how he wants to resolve it.
i don't think anything needs to be done about that game, i just think more specific guidelines need to be set out
if we had a specific set of situations that you know if you go for it, a win in that game would have the result thrown out, it would be beneficial to the league.
i propose we use this rule
Fourth down conversion attempts - no going for it unless you're at your opponent's side of the 50 or closer (exception: you're losing in the fourth quarter).
In game penalty for violations - offending player immediately calls QB kneel and no huddles 3 more QB kneels to give the ball back to the other team.
thats pretty cut and dry, we dont need to make anything confusing
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Jan 13, 2011 21:24:18 GMT -6
Post by dave on Jan 13, 2011 21:24:18 GMT -6
Going for it on 4th and 6 on your opponent's 41 yard line, in the first half: not cheesy, though a close call. In commishing my own OD I reviewed a spreadsheet containing all play-by-play data (NFL, not college, so yes NFL is more conservative), and most teams punt in that situation, but at least 15% go for it, so it's not an expected call, but doing it only one time in a game in that situation is not that crazy. Going for it on 4th and 4 on your own 26 yard line, down by only a touchdown with seconds left in the first half: absolutely cheesy. I don't think it matters whether your offense is great or your defense is horrible, because that has nothing to do with the criteria for whether you should be doing it or not. The reference point is whether you're playing in a way that is consistent with what you see on Saturday, and no team would ever go for it in that situation. The answer to the problem is you learning how to play better defense, not playing the game in a clearly unrealistic way. I couldn't have said it any better. The first instance was okay, but not the 2nd instance on your own 26 yard line. Both Iowa and Michigan State went for it on 4th down when they shouldn't(different games) so just refrain from going for it in these situations in the future or risk forfeiting a game.
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